[lazbisme]

I am considering these for use with my X3s and would be interested in thoughts of those who have heard them both. Or, heard them both and chose something else! Only in the beginning phases of thinking about changing from my 2.3watt SET amp or maybe a pair of them series coupled for 2 at 6watts each. Most of the time one is sufficient but just need more headroom on some music. Orchestral music with large dynamic range is particularly troublesome. 12 x 30 x 8 room and do not listen at high levels. Anything over about 80dB is uncomfortable to me. Appreciate your thoughts

[Daryl Zero]

Which LTA integrated? z10, z40+, zotl ultralinear+?

I have the z40+ integrated. I was too impatient to wait for the Vahalla amp and haven't heard it.
I have the X5s, not the X3s.

[lazbisme]

not far enough along to decide which model. All are in the picture right now. Why did you pick that amp over others under consideration?

[Daryl Zero]

1.  Spatial Audio Lab speakers at shows are often times paired with LTA speakers and the sound samples I've heard were terrific.
2.  LTA amps use the tubes in a way so that the tubes last longer.
3.  I hunt for stuff used and I found the LTA z40+ with almost all upgrades (other than the EL34s) at about $3,000 below new price. It has the phono preamp and the SUT as well so fully equipped it is an expensive puppy new. That was important because eventually I want to combine my turntable into the system. Right now everything is fairly disorganized in my office but I have plans to retire within a year or so. When I get rid of my office stuff, I'll set up a proper system. 
4.  I was using a Rogers High Fidelity 65V2 and really liked the sound with EL34s.
5.  I contacted Don Sachs before I got the Rogers and it would have been a 6 month wait for a Vahalla and I am too impatient.
6.  The LTA z40+ didn't actually knock my socks off until I replaced all of the tubes and I think I have it zeroed it. It is my first taste of a high quality (and expensive) amp and I'm looking at it as an endgame amp. It has really nice detail, my tube tweaks brought back the sweet midrange I was looking for without losing detail and it is fast.
7.  When I first joined AC, I read a bunch of the threads on the best amps which discussed these amps. Some of the posters preferred the Ultralinear so they can maybe give you their two cents. I have very little experience with tube amps. Early on, there was a local poster who let me come and listen and we compared his Carver Crimson 275 to his First Watt J2 and we both preferred the tube amp and thought the SS sounded a bit thin. That sold me on the idea of tube amps even though I had never owned any previously. (This was around summer of 2021 as I got the X5s (used) in May of 2021).
8.  I've listened to Clayton on YouTube and he seems to have a variety of amps he likes with the speakers including Don Sachs stuff, Atma-Sphere  and LTA. Every once in a while a poster comes up with a new idea. The class D stuff is intriguing but I don't think I want a huge bank of amps like Tyson to mix and match. I want just one and a sound I love.

Here's the link for the z40+ i:

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/z40-integrated-amplifier

The website links some reviews which are interesting. The Enjoythemusic review also brings in the Ultralinear for comparison.

I think the poster, Doggie, tried the z10 and the Ultralinear and preferred the Ultralinear but that was in 2021 so he might be into something completely different now. He also has X5s.  The link to his post is  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177630.msg1869632#msg1869632

Happy to answer any other questions that I can in my limited experiences with this stuff.

[geerock]

Lazbizme
Might want to have a conversation with Clayton. He has Don's equipment and LTA's in his Spatial showroom.  Probably best to speak to him privately as I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to choose one over the other on a public forum.  I have Don's pre with an LTA Reference 40+ amp and it's a nice combo but I'm waiting on Don to build me a new amp as we speak and then the LTA will be for sale.  Hopefully the new amp will be the last for this here old guy.  (Famous last words.)

[Tyson]

I've heard both the Sachs and the LTA.  The LTA is definitely less traditional tube sound.  It's clean, fast and clear.  But I like more harmonics and warmth to the sound.  So the Don Sachs would be my choice.

[morganc]

I had them both in my system a few months back.  I had the  Don Sachs Kootenay with the Don Sachs Pre vs the LTA Reference 40 Integrated with the Mullard tubes, ie top of the line LTA.  I kept the LTA for about one month. First impressions of the LTA were off the charts and I thought I’d love it and keep it forever.  Then I got the Kootenay and did a few direct A/B comparisons over a month or so and sold the LTA thereafter. The tone, timbre, and warmth of the Don Sachs won me over.  In my system, with my tastes, it was a very easy decision to stick with the Don Sachs.  For the record, as synergy is key, the rest of my system are Spatial X3’s and an Aurender N100 feeding an Audio Mirror IV SE Dac. 

The key thing to keep in mind is that at this high level, choosing either one is a win, right?  There is no right or wrong ime or better or worse, it’s just like do you prefer chocolate or strawberry ice cream?   The LTA delivers great spatial cues, with clarity, speed and detail.  Oodles of detail. The Don Sachs brings out detail, but what sticks out is the harmonics, tone and timbre. 

Sure hope this helps. Using words to describe sounds is not a specialty of the English language.   

[doggie]

I think the poster, Doggie, tried the z10 and the Ultralinear and preferred the Ultralinear but that was in 2021 so he might be into something completely different now. He also has X5s.  The link to his post is  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177630.msg1869632#msg1869632

I have owned several LTA amps but only the Ultralinear Integrated Plus with my X5's. It is a great combination. For me the UL amp is the best of both worlds (tube/SS): great detail, refinement and depth while still having tube magic. I also have a Lampizator Baltic 3 tube DAC that allows me to try out different tubes to "dial in" the sound to my own tastes. For me this is an end game setup.

The integrated LTA  amps are also an especially good deal as they have a lot of flexibility, remove a set of interconnects, and save on space.

[lazbisme]

Thanks to all the responses! Seems to be a "you pays your money and you takes your chances" unless "ears on" trials can be arranged. I have a while before I could make the move so will continue down the road. Again, thanks and really appreciate the time and effort required to post your thoughts and experiences!

[jnschneyer]

When I was auditioning the Spatial speakers at their shop, I first listened to the M3s and X5s powered by an LTA (I believe it was the Z10, though I'm not positive about that).  I'd seen some videos and read some reviews of the M3, and, driven by the LTA, they were impressive, but not enough to make me want to switch from my Heritage Specials.  Then Cloud hooked the speakers up to the Don Sachs Valhalla and I knew instantly that was the sound I wanted.  While some aspects of an amp's or a speaker's sound may be demonstrable - soundstage, bass extension, etc - how one responds to or cares about those things is personal, and the judgement of overall sound is subjective, so (and, of course, I'm not saying anything you don't know) though it may be possible to point to certain things a particular amp, speaker, or combination of the two does "better" than another, it is impossible for anyone to say which a given person will prefer.  That said, I far preferred the Don Sachs to the LTA.  The tone was richer, the presentation more vital, more real, more present (I hesitate to say more forward, as that often has a pejorative connotation), but, mostly, it got my attention, not by being exceptionally clear or crisp or lush or any one specific quality, but by being engaging, immediately and unmistakably moving; I simply couldn't deny my response to the music, especially combined with the X5s.  I was so smitten with this combination that I sold my Heritage Specials, which I loved, and bought a pair of X5s and ordered a Valhalla from Don Sachs, which I got about two weeks ago.  It took about 5 months to get it - Don is building only part-time now - but it was well worth the wait.  I'm new to tubes, so I'm sure I'm bathing in the glow of their newness, and some of that glow is no doubt being reflected in my writing about them, but there is no question the Valhalla demonstrably does everything better than my SS Classe CA-2300 (which is a fine amp) and is, in my admittedly limited experience, by far the best amp I've owned.  If you want to bore yourself with more of my take on the Valhalla, I posted here on AC a revoltingly gushing panegyric on my first impressions of it under a post entitled Tube Newb.  As many have said, they're both great amps.  Reading everyone's opinions probably won't help you make a decision, but it's part of the fun.  Good luck!   

[Daryl Zero]

Doggie, do you know the differences between the Ultralinear + and the z40+ integrateds? Also, can you clarify your statement about removing a set of interconnects or is that referring to the fact that an integrated amp doesn't need a preamp?

I get other posters' views on the more tubey sound of Sach's products and, as I mentioned, I was not happy with the sound of the z40+ integrated when I first got it although I was impressed by the clarity and speed of the sound. I did change out all of the tubes and got what I think was a more tubey sound along with the clarity and speed.

To those who have heard both, how does the Sachs' Vahalla compare to the LTA on the detail and speed side? If the Vahalla is the equal or better than the LTA, it is much more affordable than the LTA so, if you are looking for a tube sound, I would say go get the Vahalla. The LTA does have some modern extras such as XLR inputs and the addition of a phono preamp (for extra). I looked at the LTA not only as an endgame solution but also as the solution to many issues including not having to add a high end phono preamp. 

[jnschneyer]

To those who have heard both, how does the Sachs' Vahalla compare to the LTA on the detail and speed side? If the Vahalla is the equal or better than the LTA, it is much more affordable than the LTA so, if you are looking for a tube sound, I would say go get the Vahalla. The LTA does have some modern extras such as XLR inputs and the addition of a phono preamp (for extra). I looked at the LTA not only as an endgame solution but also as the solution to many issues including not having to add a high end phono preamp.
[/quote]

I have heard both, one right after the other, so, at least at the time, was able to compare them.  That was several months ago, so I'm now going on my memory of my assessment of them rather than an actual aural memory, but I'm sure I felt there was no loss of speed or detail in the Valhalla compared to the LTA.  In a sense, it was the opposite.  While I can't say from memory that the Valhalla was faster than the LTA, the difference in sound, in musical connection, so awareness of the detail within the music, was, after listening to the LTA, like turning on a light in a dark room.  I listened to the LTA and liked it; I listened to the Valhalla and immediately wanted one.  It was only one listening session, but I listened to a pretty wide variety of artists and genres, and, in my estimation, the Valhalla bested the LTA in all of them.  It drew me in and compelled my attention in a way the LTA simply didn't.  It's hard to say whether it was my greater attention in listening to the Valhalla that made me more aware of the detail or if in fact it just was more revealing.  Either way, the result was the same: I heard more and felt more with the Valhalla, so much so that I put my money where my ears were and bought one.  Also, for what it's worth, the Valhalla does have one set of XLR inputs.  Of course (the usual caveats), these things are room and system and ear and taste dependent.  Nevertheless, these were my subjective impressions.  Hope they help a little bit. 

[Daryl Zero]

I'm going to assume, because I don't want to commit seppuku, that the changes I made to the tubes would change your opinion. 

[jnschneyer]

I'm going to assume, because I don't want to commit seppuku, that the changes I made to the tubes would change your opinion. 

If I lived nearby, we could hook them up side by side and compare them (hiding the short sword, just in case).

[rwanda]

Had the LTA Z40 in my space with M3TM and it just was not my cup of tea. Too analytical for my taste and music plus I hated the remote and "clicking" whenever I changed the volume level.
My Luxman SQ150n with some special 12ax7's was far more to  my taste and several others who heard the comparison. I also drive the speakers with a Fi X 2a3 and a Shindo Apetite.....which at this point is my preferred amp.

[Sense63]

It’s interesting as to how everyone hears differently or has particular tastes in regards to how they like the presentation.  I owned the Valhalla and although it is an excellent integrated, I never fell in love with it.  I wanted to…..but it kept me wanting more.  Fast forward to recently receiving the LTA Z40+ with Amperex EL34 tubes.  Within a couple of hours, I knew this was the amp for me.  It’s only getting better as I log more time on it.  I’m not wanting for anything and FWIW, I perceive the Z40+ as faster and more resolving, but keeping the nice tube bloom when needed.  Maybe it’s the reference + iteration that takes it to another level?

[schw06]

I rarely post but popped in to this thread as a Spatial owner that owned Scott's(Sense63) Sachs integrated and ironically now own the Z40+ and Circle Labs A200 (I swear we haven't spoken in years so it happened coincidentally). I really think the world of Don and his products are amazing (as is the guy). The Z40+ and Sachs really focus on different priorities in the music and I can understand how someone would have a clear preference for either amp...Like brown butter bourbon pecan ice cream vs peppermint stick. They're both fantastic and you're going to love each of them but you will have a very clear preference between them. Based on what I own you can see my preference but you will need to experience them both for yourself to make a good decision. You know what they say about opinions...
David

[Daryl Zero]

Thank both of you for your comments about the Sachs vs. LTA. (Except I'm afraid I don't like either brown butter bourbon pecan ice cream or the peppermint stick)

The thing is that I have to trust my ears and I am very happy with the z40+ i.
I do understand that it might sound too analytical and I thought so at first, but, as mentioned before, I replaced all of the tubes and got the sound I wanted.
I don't want to get into a place where I'm always hunting something new. I am happy where I'm at. 

I figure there is a reason that Clayton displays his speakers in conjunction with LTA.

[jnschneyer]

Thank both of you for your comments about the Sachs vs. LTA. (Except I'm afraid I don't like either brown butter bourbon pecan ice cream or the peppermint stick)

The thing is that I have to trust my ears and I am very happy with the z40+ i.
I do understand that it might sound too analytical and I thought so at first, but, as mentioned before, I replaced all of the tubes and got the sound I wanted.
I don't want to get into a place where I'm always hunting something new. I am happy where I'm at. 

I figure there is a reason that Clayton displays his speakers in conjunction with LTA.

This is of course absolutely true. Who knows why one person prefers one piece of gear to another.  Or, for that matter, why that preference might change over time.  You’re right to assume Clayton has good reason for demoing his speakers with LTA, and you’re equally right not to drive yourself bonkers over what another piece of gear might sound like.  We all know too well how easy it is to fret about making a decision and about a decision we’ve made.  I have no doubt your system sounds great.  Unless one just really enjoys forever trying different gear, which I suppose is as legitimate a pursuit as any, at some point we have to find something we like and just enjoy it.  It’s not that I want to go back to, or even believe in, the bliss of ignorance, but it is funny to think of the time when I was young and just listened to music.  It was the same with books; I just read them without thinking of their actually having been written by people with ideas to embody and promulgate in their writing.  I doubt one can ever entirely recover that level of uncritical enjoyment, or if it’s even wholly desirable - we just know too much as adults - there’s a reason the tree of knowledge was off limits - but it’s nice to revisit that place, even in small bits, when we can.

[Mr. Big]

This is of course absolutely true. Who knows why one person prefers one piece of gear to another.  Or, for that matter, why that preference might change over time.  You’re right to assume Clayton has good reason for demoing his speakers with LTA, and you’re equally right not to drive yourself bonkers over what another piece of gear might sound like.  We all know too well how easy it is to fret about making a decision and about a decision we’ve made.  I have no doubt your system sounds great.  Unless one just really enjoys forever trying different gear, which I suppose is as legitimate a pursuit as any, at some point we have to find something we like and just enjoy it.  It’s not that I want to go back to, or even believe in, the bliss of ignorance, but it is funny to think of the time when I was young and just listened to music.  It was the same with books; I just read them without thinking of their actually having been written by people with ideas to embody and promulgate in their writing.  I doubt one can ever entirely recover that level of uncritical enjoyment, or if it’s even wholly desirable - we just know too much as adults - there’s a reason the tree of knowledge was off limits - but it’s nice to revisit that place, even in small bits, when we can.

The thing about the sound of a system in this case a new amp is a sound with its use in his system, within his room acoustics, his power cords, etc. The same amp in my system might sound much different due to what I mentioned. Same amp could sound warmer or brighter in another system, then of course the preamp used would also make an impact.